How to get promoted from SDR

Adam (00:02.117)
You're listening to Bold Calling, an award winning podcast presented by Orum where every episode we're bringing on the biggest and brightest minds in tech and sales for a discussion about their biggest challenges and the unique ways they are working to solve them. Today, I am joined by two absolutely fantastic Orumites who I kind of bullied into doing this. I Brayton Riley and Kevin Nguyen. They have incredible experience going from SDRs to leaders here at Orum. So we're going to talk about their stories and how they got to where they are.

Kevin, Brayton, both of you, thank you guys so much for joining me today.

Brayton (00:36.101)
Of course. No bullying was needed, by the way. Yeah, we love Adam.

Kevin Nguyen (00:36.814)
I'd relate anything for you.

Adam (00:39.921)
you too. All right, so what we're gonna do today, like I said, Brighton and Kevin both started out at their ORAM journey as SDRs, and they have since moved on to other roles because of their incredible success and talent and capabilities. And we want to give everyone else a playbook for how they can expand into new roles from their careers if they're just starting out in SDRs, if that is what they want to do. So we're gonna start by how you guys got to where you are from where you were and.

just go through a whole bunch of stuff. So first things first, just because one of you has been here longer than the other, we'll start with Kevin. Tell me about your path here at Orum into your current role.

Kevin Nguyen (01:21.196)
Yeah, so my Orum journey started off as a customer. I leveraged Orum at my original, at my first SDR role in tech. I sold to DevOps. Sold OK, but really saw the value of Orum and reached out to my CSM Patrick to get my foot in the door. My Orum journey was a really fun one.

I found a lot of great success in partnering with my AEs to be rep of the year. My first year here, getting promoted to senior, then to team lead, helping onboard Breitman becoming a top rep herself before jumping onto the AE side of things now. The two and a half years here has been super fun and incredibly rewarding in so many different ways.

Adam (02:16.145)
I love that. Speaking of from one SDR of the year, I believe to the to another SDR of the year, Brayton me tell everybody how if anyone has seen our social media, I've made Brayton talk a few times about her path from like from teacher to here. But talk talk about your your journey and how you got to where you are now.

Brayton (02:23.121)
Yeah.

Brayton (02:34.713)
Yeah, definitely. mean, Kevin was a huge part of it. Like he said, when I got here, I had no SDR experience at all. Really just came from a teaching background. That's what I thought, you know, most of my career was going to be. So join the team. Kevin was a senior SDR at that point, not team lead yet. A few months later, he ended up getting promoted to that team lead spot, but I felt like he always was kind of a mentor to me. had a few really strong senior SDRs on the team that I kind of

looked up to because I didn't really know how to like set the pace myself. I had no SDR experience coming into this. you know, I had Kevin, Dom, who's now an AE, Julie, who is killing it elsewhere. So definitely had a few really strong mentors that I looked up to. And that's kind of all I knew was like what they were doing. So got ramped up pretty quickly. Like I was hitting the phones here second weekend, just faking the confidence, you know, listening to all of their calls, figuring out what's working

for them and kind of making it my own. Just, yeah, faking it till you made it. And yeah, I felt like I just kind of picked up momentum. Didn't have the best first quarter, because I was just figuring out the tech stack. But second quarter and beyond, just kind of kept scaling up. And I would say I was, what, a year and a half into it? I got promoted to team lead.

and then around the same time also broke into the enterprise space. So a lot of change in the last three months for me on the SDR team.

Adam (04:09.627)
I'm curious and Brayton we'll start with you. Was this your goal when you started out here at Orum? Obviously, I don't mean your end goal, but when you started out as an SDR, was it your eventual goal to say, I want to go from SDR to team leader? Were you thinking I want to be eventually a CSM or an account executive? What did you have in your mind was going to be the path you would take?

Brayton (04:35.143)
Honestly, no, I didn't consider doing team leader any sort of leadership in this role. think honestly teaching kind of burnt me out. Like I didn't really want to be in charge of anyone else's, you know, abilities or success at first. I just wanted to be able to like go in, do my own thing and like crush it at what I'm doing. And I think I just kind of naturally got into that team lead role if I'm being honest, because I enjoy like supporting others and

being everyone's cheerleader and so I might not have had like the technical background or the things that, know, Kevin was really good about like sitting down with us on a one-on-one and being like, hey, what are your goals? Like, what do we really need to do to get there? And giving us like really technical tips that we can use and great talk tracks and things like that. And I was kind of like, okay, like, yes, maybe I could jump into that role, but like, I think I have a different set of...

you know, different asset to the team. So I think me being more of a support system for the newer reps and yeah, being a person that, you know, people can lean on and helping with the enablement piece, being, you know, a teacher background. So just kind of finding what works for me and where I'm an asset to the team. And I kind of just got, you know, pushed into that role and I was happy to take that on, but definitely my goal is just to...

really get into that AE role and kill it as an individual contributor for sure.

Adam (06:05.007)
of that. Kevin, how about you? What was your initial like, hey, here's where I want to get to when you started here.

Kevin Nguyen (06:13.42)
Yeah, this is a really interesting question because as I was completing my first year as an SDR, I really did not know what I wanted to do. And kind of similarly to Brayton, I really enjoy like helping out the team. Like when we got new reps, like Michael was always help them be as good as we are. Like if I could find success, how much can I share that? And I think a lot of that

Turns back and talk my own history. I've mentored teams or cohorts of fresh grass to help them break into tech. I Have always had like that older sibling type of energy And even now as an executive running through pilots, like I find so much joy and when the Reps get that aha moment like Orum is unlocking so much for us so when I jumped into the team lead role, I really wanted to ensure that

Brayton and Sean, who's now our senior SDR, was able to find their own beat and their own way to sell and really capitalize it with Orum's capabilities. And then even now as an account executive, like being able to help the new SDRs find their own voice and how I was able to be successful. Like being, if I'm not a leader now, like I'm still a leader to them because they're helping me out.

Adam (07:37.584)
Yeah, I want to clarify, I asked you both if this was your goal and to be fair, someone would ask me in my first marketing role, like, what do you want to be when you grow up? I would have been like, I don't know. just please keep paying me every two weeks so that I can pay for my insurance. But now if you were to ask me, like I want to be a CMO someday. I want to be a chief marketing officer somewhere, whether it's here or elsewhere. And like you do start thinking like, OK, in order to do that, you said even if you're looking out for your own.

stuff that you're doing in your own pipeline. It's also you're like, okay, how do I take the time to make sure I'm doing that enablement to your point of brain? You're like, I'm helping lift up other people. there are, it's this unique thing of like, I want to look out for number one, quote unquote, but I also want to like lift everyone else up. And it all really does end up paying off. you know, those are those are some of the challenges, obviously, that the people experiences, they're kind of taking on leadership roles. But I'm curious for both of you, like,

What has been slash what was, Kevin, for you the biggest challenge? And Kevin, we'll start with you. What was the biggest challenge in going from someone who was on the team to kind of leading a team in real time?

Kevin Nguyen (08:47.298)
Yeah, the biggest challenge was kind of just, it was a lot of personal guilt. Like it was a really big transitionary period of leaving the team without real leadership and ensuring that they could be successful while still wanting to achieve my own goals. And I've

Adam (08:56.229)
Yeah.

Kevin Nguyen (09:08.878)
Part of me, like I'm really glad to see where things are going now, but a part of me still feels a little guilty for not being able to support the reps as they are when I did move over to the AE team. But the other side of it too is like I had a lot of faith and trust in Brayton and Sean and I knew that they would be able to carry the flag just on the conversations that I still have with both of them.

Adam (09:22.759)
Mm-hmm.

Adam (09:38.287)
I know what you mean, like as a person who is both a individual contributor and like a strategist, it's like, it's so hard to let go of some things to focus in other areas. And like, it can be challenging to kind of take a deep breath and be like, okay, these people got this. like, Brayton, for you, going from a member of the team to leading the team, like.

What did that feel like? were the challenges you experienced and then kind of how did you address them in real time?

Brayton (10:09.137)
Yeah, I think one of the biggest challenges for me is remembering that like now my energy that I'm bringing into every day is gonna impact the rest of the team. So there might be moments where it's like, yeah, I want to vent about like a change that's going on or maybe I'm not having the best week. And it's like, I'm not going to bring that onto the team and let that energy bring the rest of everyone down. Cause I want to make sure like I'm lifting everyone up. And so now it's maybe going to Kevin or

you know, talking to my manager or, you know, really figuring out, okay, who do I want to bring these issues to and like the energy that I'm making sure I'm bringing to the rest of the team, right? And making sure, you know, now I'm like gathering the troops for the sales floor, making sure like I'm showing up every day and not just in my own little island keeping my head down.

especially when it comes to like end of quarter, making sure I'm still prioritizing time every single day. Cuz I do think that energy is felt if like I disappear, the whole team's not bringing their all every day. That's definitely felt even in a remote environment.

Adam (11:22.247)
gonna ask you guys about that, like kind of filling up your own cup, because there's this quote from, it's actually from the movie Remember the Titans, this is so cheesy, but the movie Remember the Titans, which came out I think probably before either of you were in the working space, oh Kevin's giving me the faces, like no, what are you talking about? Anyway, there's a quote where they say, reflects leadership, and like this is where I will give our like head of our sales team, Colin, a lot of credit, like.

Brayton (11:36.435)
You

Adam (11:49.01)
He's always so positive and I'm sure there's gotta be days where he's tired and having a rough moment. And I feel like I'm pretty well known around here for being positive and reflecting. Hang on one moment. You still there, Kev?

Kevin Nguyen (12:08.87)
Yes, I hear. I am. Can you hear me?

Adam (12:09.799)
You there, Kevin?

Brayton (12:11.982)
back.

Adam (12:13.777)
Okay, there we go, yeah. Anyway, there's this quote, attitude reflects leadership. It's from Remember the Titans, and it's like, our leader, Colin, our sales leader, he's always super positive, and it's like, I'm sure there are days where he's having a rough moment. And like, I think about this personally, because people always think of me as like very positive person on Slack and in meetings and trying to be like Mr. Positivity. But I definitely feel some days, I'm just like, my God, I don't want to do this.

I don't have a team under me, I have a team that I work with, how do you guys, where do you go to kind of fill up your own cups? And like, Brayton, we'll start with you. I think you I may have talked about this, like going for walks and like having like a Zen moment at the start of the day, but how do you refill your own cup to make sure you can be that source of positivity and energy for your team?

Brayton (12:59.387)
Yeah, I definitely feel it on days where I'm like working too late or I don't move my body. I like feel it coming into the next day. And so I'm big about like once my laptop shut, like I'm not going to keep opening it after dinner or looking at emails before bed. Like once I shut my laptop, unless it's really urgent, like the rest of the night's for me. So going on walks now that it's spring, I live in Seattle. So for me, I've just been hitting the

Adam (13:03.015)
you

Brayton (13:29.341)
and running on the treadmill every day, which isn't ideal, but like moving my body in some capacity. And I even notice on weeks where I'm like more social with friends, like I show up better at work. So I'm big on like planning my week out with friends, doing a lot of like one-on-one, you know, friend dates throughout the week and catching up with people. Like that's huge for me. Just having my social time outside of work.

Adam (13:41.969)
Mm-hmm.

Adam (13:55.846)
Yeah, Kev, how about you? How do you make sure you're ready to be energetic and positive for your team, and especially when you were a leader before?

Kevin Nguyen (14:05.148)
Yeah, I mean, I still think it's the same today. Like even if I'm not, may not be leading a team, but I'm still a leader both here as an account executive and then in campaigns with my prospects. Like if I'm not showing up for them, then who else is going to do it, right? But I lean on a lot of my communities and like shout out to Alluvians, to sales community that I'm a part of that's really helped me like shape my vision and

Adam (14:14.289)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin Nguyen (14:36.344)
I myself to be able to show up as my full authentic self and really just to keep the energy up. Brayton can test this. She's seen like pre-alluvians and post-alluvians. It's just like how much that has affected the way that I show up for myself and for the team.

Brayton (14:45.402)
Yes.

Adam (14:56.069)
I love that. I will say I'm very much like Brayton. My partner asks me every day at the start of the day, what does self care look like for you today? And every day it's going for a run. That's how I have to move my body or else I'm gonna go crazy. So I definitely appreciate that very much. I would love to hear advice you guys have been given from your leaders that you are using in your daily jobs now that will...

that's helping you out. For example, I'll give you one from a previous job I had. I had an SVP of brand marketing and they just reminded me that when somebody gives you feedback who's above you, you have to remember that you don't have the context for why they may be being harsh about one thing or another and you can ask them but they may not be able to tell you. But just understand that like...

where they're coming from, maybe from just a different angle from you, and it doesn't mean what you're saying and doing is wrong, it's just maybe not right for this moment. And that's always been, that's helped me take a deep breath any time I create a piece of content and someone above me is like, no, because. I wait, so that's been really helpful for me to remember that like they are coming at anything from a different point of view. And I'm curious for you guys, now that I've vamped for a little bit and I can let you guys speak. Kevin, is there a piece of advice that's been?

really beneficial for you that you think about often.

Kevin Nguyen (16:20.43)
The only thing I really think of top of my head is just like don't be afraid to fail forward. You learn a lot from failure and I think too like when I was in SDR when I wouldn't book meetings I would and I still have prospects on the phone I'm just like hey what can I do better? Like what would what would have helped me book you that I can book the next one and people are always receptive to answering that question.

Adam (16:25.094)
Mm-hmm.

Adam (16:38.801)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin Nguyen (16:48.36)
And it gets like a two-part thing where like closed mouths don't get fed. So just not being afraid to ask questions. I'm pretty sure I've told Brayton that probably a hundred times when she was ramping.

Adam (16:54.865)
Mm-hmm.

Brayton (16:58.291)
Yeah, it's a big one over here. Don't ask, don't get.

Adam (17:01.551)
Yeah, I love that. I love that. Are there other ones, Brittan, for you that like from a leadership standpoint, people have told you?

Brayton (17:10.211)
Yeah, I actually think back to I think it was Aralee's like second month here. She's our SDR manager. She's amazing.

Adam (17:16.625)
Mm-hmm.

Brayton (17:18.623)
She, I wasn't having the best week that week. I was just kind of in a rut because that happens to me as well. it's just, yeah, once you're in that, it is, it's, you have to have a mindset shift. And she was talking about abundance mindset, abundance mindset. And I've known about this. People say it all the time in sales. Like we, constantly are talking about abundance mindset, but it's really hard to like understand how to actually do that. And so she kind of walked me through it. She's like, okay, we

have all these accounts you're going after you're talking about these people that you know you'll convert to a meeting if you get them on the phone right but they're not answering so like what are we gonna do we can't just be relying on these you know few accounts yes they might be great prospects and could really use Orum but like it's not working right now so we need to think there's so many other options out there and so many other people that could have a need for us like go up after them and you won't be so stuck on these few people

that you're not getting in contact with.

And so, you know, just having this like fresh list of leads, like it honestly just was like a weight lifted off my shoulder. And then I was booking more like I wasn't focused on what's not converting. I was focused on like the possibility. And so I've kept that like if I'm in a rut and things aren't going well for me, like go out there and add a ton more prospects, like just that mindset shift of calling a fresh list that is all in a step one of my sequence. Like I go into it with a whole different mindset.

Adam (18:30.352)
Yeah.

Adam (18:42.983)
Mm-hmm.

Brayton (18:51.541)
And so, yeah, I think actually understanding how to use your abundance mindset every day has been huge.

Adam (18:55.921)
You

Adam (19:02.245)
I love that. I want to ask you guys a little bit about time management, because obviously you're building your own pipelines, you're leading other people. Kevin, now you're doing demos too, and there's a whole bunch of stuff going on. I know you're both in different roles from one another at this point, but I want to hear how you guys are managing your time, whether it's blocking out your calendar. We'll start with you, Kevin. How do you approach time management?

your schedule usually look like so that you can get all the things done.

Kevin Nguyen (19:35.814)
Yeah, as an SDR I was pretty linear. I had, it was straightforward. Four hours of prospecting, two hours, three hours of cold calling. I think that was it. And those hours, like I would go account after account, maybe do some LinkedIn stuff here and there. And like my last hour is my end of day audit.

Something that people don't tell you when you transition to AE is just how going from a linear to a nonlinear day can be really jarring. So a lot of it has to do with like your end of night audits and your next day prep list. And like what else can you get done that is priority one that you need to get down now and being disciplined with your time has been really hard. But we're getting the hang of it and...

Just having that checklist is really the most important thing for me to knock off, to make sure that no stone is left unturned and that everyone is getting the attention they all deserve.

Adam (20:39.591)
Yeah, I was laughing when we were talking about linear, linearly and nonlinearly because as a content person who's usually doing 17 different things, like forget linear, nonlinear, mine looks like a scatter plot or like a novel that has 15 different timelines and no one really knows what's going on until the end. That's how I feel like my day is like. Brayton, I'm curious for you, like as you're also leading a team, but like focusing on your own pipeline, how do you...

Split up your time so that you can be present for everyone who might need you while also realizing that you do need to have that abundance mindset for yourself as well.

Brayton (21:12.071)
Mm-hmm.

Brayton (21:18.149)
Yeah, I definitely so I break my day into like what a I'm prospecting for and kind of Mondays more like Understanding kind of my workflow for that week things accounts I need to prioritize all of that and then I break it down into I only support two AEs So it's nice the the other four days I go back and forth so I know okay today. I'm really focusing on prospecting Tavner's the next day. I'm doing Sam's so I'm not

Switching too often within one day on my book of accounts. So that's been really huge for me. And then honestly like

I have my typical calendar that I've had since I became an SDR and that's kind of what I stick with. But I do have like my two other, you know, tasks as an SDR that I do our team lead every week is I do our Friday meeting where I'm doing our shout outs for the team and going through all of our stats. So I know I have a little block on my Friday morning, like put together your slideshow. And then I also know that, you know, every Monday I'm doing my one on one with Airelie where I'm

going to be bringing up ideas for the team or maybe new enablement ideas. so I also, Monday morning, when I'm going through my workflow for the week, that's something. I have a little brainstorming session Monday.

So aside from really those two, you know, team lead blocks that I have every week, I'm pretty much open. Like if I'm in a prospecting session and people want to huddle me or slack me, like I'm pretty good at just doing it right away and kind of moving on with my tasks. So overall, it hasn't really changed. Like I stick with my calendar block from week one as an SDR.

Kevin Nguyen (23:01.702)
Yeah, I think the difference like when I was a team lead for Brayton to where she is now is like there's different leadership and our previous SDR leader leaned on me pretty heavily to like take a higher leadership role. And I think what worked really well for me is taking the time to see like what does each rep need, right?

Adam (23:25.127)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin Nguyen (23:26.14)
With the newer reps, was definitely more heavily on being creative with enablement, trying to up level them in an additional skill outside of what they're currently working on. I was an enterprise rep with our senior reps at the time. So like our one-on-ones were really like two on ones. All three of us were having prospecting blocks together because that was the most important use of our time while still brainstorming with us on how to best like build pipeline together.

Adam (23:45.735)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin Nguyen (23:53.809)
Even now, like if I'm meeting with the reps, just like, how can we be both be productive and enable you to be more productive?

Adam (24:03.003)
Yeah, I love that. That kind of goes into my next question is wondering if you guys' perspectives have changed now that you're not just focused on your own KPIs, OKRs, but you're also focused on team and company ones as well. Has there been a mindset shift, Brayton, we'll start with you on this, knowing that, yes, you're still responsible for everything that you're doing, but you also are responsible for other people who like.

There's some variables that you can't control. How does your perspective change knowing that it's not just you that is building into what ultimately are your goals?

Brayton (24:33.234)
Yeah.

Brayton (24:43.279)
Yeah, I mean, even when I'm prospecting now, I'm constantly thinking about what could help the team. So if I find a lead on LinkedIn and I go in and see someone's at a SDR on the account, I'm pinging them right away. Hey, this is the contacts that I have. Go after this person. I feel like I'm more actively seeking ways to give the rest of the team a little, you

a lead in an easy win any way I can. So I think that my mindset has just changed or, you know, if there's someone that I see on Orum, someone booked a meeting, like I'm actively reaching out to them, hey, great job, loved your line of questioning. Like I'm giving one little thing that I thought they did really good in that call, where maybe before I'd only mentioned it if I was on the sales floor with them and.

Adam (25:32.913)
Mm-hmm.

Brayton (25:33.127)
Hey, nice job on that call. But like I, I know that that can go a really long way, especially being like a newer rep on the team. Like even one positive compliment can really like make the rest of their day or week and honestly increases everyone's productivity. So I feel like it's just those little things that I'm like really trying to actively do every single day.

Adam (25:55.783)
Can't help you.

Kevin Nguyen (25:58.214)
Yeah, I mean, I think this mindset when I became a leader was still like, their success is my success. Like, even if I hit my number, like, it's not as great as if we all hit our number. And that mindset has continued to stay with me as an account executive, like the reps that I help, their success is my success. I want them to hit their number and I want them to break records and take home a lot of money.

Adam (26:04.967)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin Nguyen (26:22.032)
So like, similar to Brayton, like I'm cheering the mom whenever they get it. I may not be listening to the calls, but like I'm making sure that they feel seen. And then if things aren't working, how can we reverse engineer a way to make sure that it's not so much of a thing that's holding them back, but a way that they can continue to lift them up.

Adam (26:43.527)
of that. Have there been challenges? Did you guys either experience or are currently experiencing challenges going from being someone's peer to technically being their leader? Like that feels like such an interesting situation where it doesn't really, it's very rare that it happens on other teams. Like in marketing, we all have our sort of paths, but it's not like they get to, we get to the end of a year.

And it's like, okay, Adam, you were the most successful, you're the VP of marketing now and TingTing isn't anymore. Like it doesn't, that doesn't really happen on other teams. But obviously in like the SDR role, like the most successful person who also is interested in the path of leadership and has like what it takes, they become an SDR leader or they become like they become a team lead. And then all of a sudden you're looking at these people that you were on the sales floor with, like you said, like rooting each other on, but now you're kind of responsible for.

Brayton (27:18.195)
No.

Adam (27:38.343)
their success, what are the challenges and how do you approach that? And Brayton, we'll start with you. Is that an interesting feeling? guess take me through the psychology of that.

Brayton (27:49.403)
Yeah, I mean I became team lead at an interesting time because we had just like created a whole new team essentially the only person on the team with me is Sean from when I before I was a team lead

Adam (28:03.324)
yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brayton (28:04.561)
So I actually haven't really had to deal with that. I will say like with Sean, it doesn't feel like I'm a team lead over him. It's like he's senior, he knows what he's doing. Like I kind of come to him if I meet, you know, to vent. He's kind of my go-to person on the team. So I don't really look at him as being below me in any way. So they just kind of naturally, everyone else was just on the team, knowing me as a team lead only. So I feel like Kevin might have a better.

Adam (28:19.793)
Yeah.

Adam (28:33.529)
Yeah, that's fair. All right, Kevin, be honest.

Brayton (28:33.853)
perspective on this one.

Kevin Nguyen (28:38.536)
really funny because Brayton and have had this conversation multiple times like in the what if scenario if I became her manager and what that would look like but I think the cool thing is when I did transition to team lead is I was very clear like hey I may be your lead but I am your friend before your lead at any time that you need me to take out the lead hat I will take it off and I will be here for you on a personal level

Brayton (28:45.893)
Yeah.

Kevin Nguyen (29:03.24)
And that's still true to this day. I am Brayton's friend before I'm her AE. And that kind of mindset is where I'm going to right now, where I have a new leader who was my peer on the SDR team and then my peer on the AE team. So it's that kind of situation where we made it very clear we can't separate the two. But at end of the day, we're all looking to succeed together.

Adam (29:27.911)
Go ahead, Brayton.

Brayton (29:29.447)
I yeah, I also feel like like Kevin the fact that you're able to also be our friend like I feel like we respect you more when you're a little bit harsh or blunt or hey like that was a terrible call you need to do this this and this instead like I Listen to you because I know you care about me because we're friends, you know So I actually feel like it kind of works in a way. You're you're able to be more a Blunt and tell us what we need to hear and times

Adam (29:54.692)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin Nguyen (29:56.856)
I always ask for permission if they're open to feedback and how and what kind of feedback they're willing to receive today

Brayton (29:59.527)
Yeah.

Brayton (30:03.827)
And it's always a yes.

Adam (30:06.917)
I suppose I should have brought on two less compassionate and psychologically aware people to be like, give me some spiciness. No, but I totally understand what you're saying. Ultimately, especially at a series we start up, which we are a growing but still new-ish company, everyone wants to win together. ultimately, rising tides lifts all boats. If somebody on the team books a million dollar deal,

Like, yeah, there's a little bit of you that's like, damn it, I wish that was me. But also, like, that means that the team goals are probably going to get hit. And it's like, OK, kick ass. That's awesome. Yeah, so that makes sense. All right, last question for you both. Is there one piece of advice that you wish, like, is there one thing you've learned that you wish you would have known before you started as a team lead that's been really beneficial for you now? And Kevin, we'll start with you. Like, is there something that you didn't know going in that now you're like, that would be helpful to know when I first got started?

Brayton (30:45.981)
percent.

Kevin Nguyen (31:06.258)
think the most beneficial thing is like there's no right answer and there's no right way to lead.

Adam (31:12.177)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin Nguyen (31:14.386)
I had a very clear picture of what I wanted to make out of it, because it's the things that I needed when I was a fledgling rep. And it worked out for the team. They're all promoted now, so I'm very happy about that. taking that pressure off and being able to ask for permission to focus on the things that I needed to focus on, whether it be like hitting my own number and advocating for myself for my own growth.

Like that's really been beneficial for me and just like not being afraid to do all.

Adam (31:50.503)
Brayton, how about you?

Brayton (31:53.427)
Yeah, I think I definitely get imposter syndrome with things. You know, I'm like, am I really the best for this job? Like I haven't been doing it as long as other people that might be way more senior than me, but it's like you were put in this position for a reason and people see you as a leader and trust you as a leader. And so just really stepping into.

what I'm actually good at and the value that I have in not comparing myself to previous team leads and what they've offered and been great at because I'm, you know, I'm not gonna be great at all the same things Kevin was as a team lead, but you know, I have different value that I add to the team. So really stepping in that and then doubling down on it. Like the enablement piece really gives me a lot of joy. And so that's where I get to brainstorm and have creativity.

And same with like being a cheerleader, like I'm coming up with different PowerPoints every week and just being able to use my creativity instead of stepping into what was already built for the team lead role. And I'm kind of creating it my own is something that I wish I thought of in that first week. This imposter syndrome is not real.

Kevin Nguyen (33:09.468)
before as I transitioned, did push you into being the lead and I thought you'd be a fantastic lead. And yes, here you are doing the thing.

Brayton (33:15.505)
I know. Here I am, I'm doing it.

Adam (33:20.623)
love it. This is fantastic. Kevin, Brayton, thank you both so much for joining me today.

Brayton (33:26.045)
Thank you. Always a pleasure.

Kevin Nguyen (33:26.12)
Absolutely, anytime for you Adam.