Daily discipline is key to sales success

Joe Fontana on what it takes to sustainably grow pipeline

Adam Sockel (00:02.176)
You're listening to Bold Calling, a podcast presented by Orem where every episode we're bringing on the biggest and brightest minds in the tech and sales industries for a discussion about their biggest challenges and the unique ways they're working to solve them. I'm your host, Adam Sokol, and today I'm joined by Joe Fontana, North American sales director for buyer foresight. Joe, thank you so much for joining me today.

Joe Fonatana (00:23.439)
You said something about the biggest and brightest. They're up next.

Adam Sockel (00:27.923)
Yeah, we're just yeah, what I'm doing, I'm keeping people guessing. I figured they'd be like, wow, Joe's on here. You're warming up the crowd. Yeah. You know, it's like when a standup comedian comes on, you got to bring in that first guy, right? Isn't that how that works? So, Joe, tell me a little bit about your background, how you got into the sales space and then sort of just walk me through your career into into present day. Feel free to start as way back as you

Joe Fonatana (00:31.222)
Okay, I'll just fluff. Okay. Yeah, Joe's here. He must be warming up the crowd. Here we

Joe Fonatana (00:39.651)
Yep, that's me.

Joe Fonatana (00:52.079)
No, we will you said we only have an hour so I can't start that far back. I turned 48 this year. led my first sales team as a 19 year old and I was thrown into the fire. was a Wall Street kid. was good at what I did.

and early on realized I had a knack for selling and a knack for leading sales teams. Every team I led from the age of 19 to 21 is an absolute dumpster fire. I think I was too young to be the leader that those guys needed. And it's tough when you're a 19 year old trying to give sales advice to a guy who's been doing it since the sixties. And this is back in the nineties.

But having learned from those horrible, horrible mistakes, I turned my career into a series of consultancies where I built out sales works for companies, big and small, built out call centers for Apple, helped series of car dealerships, get the nuances of selling cars down. And I did that for the better part of 15 years, decided one day that I was young enough to retire.

I was a stay -at -home dad for a few years. Up until the day, my wife had come to me and said, you got the day to yourself. I'll take the baby, go do your thing. So I opened up a bottle of Johnny Walker Blue, took out a pre embargo Cuban cigar, and about 45 minutes later realized I was still knee deep in Sesame Street. Like Ernie Burton it, I got an Ernie impression that'll beat the best of

So I went back into the world and did a lot of consulting. Same thing I'm doing now. Come into my organization, sell a product, figure out how to scale it, and just help with crossing T's and dotting I's when it comes to putting together a sales team that's sustainable.

Adam Sockel (02:59.835)
I love it. I have just so much I want to ask. I'll stay away from Sesame Street jokes for now. We'll probably come back to them. having so much experience, you know, one of the things I have realized I'm I'm in marketing. I've been doing content marketing for a little over 15 years. But the first like 10 of those years were all one organization and loved it. It was great. But I feel like I have learned more over my last two roles over the last three years.

than I did at that first organization because I was connected with so many different types of people. And I want to ask, how has your ability and your opportunity to consult with so many different places, how has that helped you along the way understand how to better establish a sales team and know what they need? guess how are you picking and choosing what pieces of information you've gained along the way to help make you better at your job?

Joe Fonatana (03:58.574)
I think it just comes from a collection of best practices you've seen and dumpster fires. And probably more in the dumpster fire area. You've seen all the things that go wrong. I have forgotten more about dumpster fire sales organizations than some people will ever learn. And God bless them for it. But it is that knowledge, that hands -on experience of not only

Adam Sockel (04:02.605)
Mm -hmm.

Joe Fonatana (04:27.63)
from what you've seen knowing it's not gonna work, but actually going out and tested it. So when I say to a sales team, that method's gonna die on the table, I know it's died on the table because I'm the guy that had to jumpstart it and give it the defibrillator and do everything in my power to try to make it to work because there's a contractor that's been calling me for the last hour and a half and it's still 3 .30 in the

Adam Sockel (04:52.504)
Do you find because of the breadth of the types of sales teams you've created, do you find that there are things that you're using for every single sales team like tactics and tips, no matter if it's like you said, a call center or people selling cars? Okay. Can you walk me through, can you walk me through what those

Joe Fonatana (05:07.681)
Definitely. Definitely.

Ciao!

So the one constant that there always has to be at least for me is if I'm going to build your team out, I'm selling it first.

understanding the language that marketing is using to get me in front of the ideal prospect and how aligned am I with my marketing cohort to ensure that we are in lockstep with

Joe Fonatana (05:39.327)
Everybody expects scaling to be this big, massive thing. Typically the best scaling is one, two men at a time. So what I've seen work is, mind you, I come into organizations where sales is broken and they know it's broken. So rather than come in and look at the one legged, you know, man and tell him to walk into a room and start stomping balloons, I'm just going to call it dead on the table. We need to rebuild.

Adam Sockel (06:09.362)
Mm -hmm.

Joe Fonatana (06:10.485)
So yeah, I want you to talk to me like I'm a six year old. Walk me through your product, walk me through your value prop, walk me through your ICP. Then I need your marketer to talk to me like I'm a six year old. And from there, just leave me alone. Let me sell the product. Let me figure out what works, what doesn't. There'll be enough data in your CRM or over the course of the deals that you've closed recently to let me know that the pieces that I might be able to pull from them. But that's only after I've started running into

potential brick walls, which doesn't happen after this amount of time. To sell a product, it's all the universal same things of knowing your audience, knowing your product, the messaging that's challenge focused. From there, it's just a matter of how do you teach somebody to do it and teach them to teach others to do

Adam Sockel (07:02.615)
I gotta be honest, I love hearing someone with as much sales experiences you have talk about that importance of connecting with marketing early on, not just because I'm a marketer. I know you're not just telling me that because I'm a marketer hosting a podcast, but I do think there is this like common misconception of sales and marketing being at each other's throats and not understanding what a real lead looks like and no one's helping one another. like hearing you say

When I come into an organization, one of the first people I want to learn from, it sounds like one of the reasons I'm guessing you're so successful, the little bit we've talked is like, seem to obviously have the utmost confidence in your abilities. But when it sounds like when you're first starting with a new team, like removing that pride that you might have and being like, okay, talk, like you said, talk to me like I'm five, talk to me like I'm six and explain to me this process. So what is that initial conversation look like for

when you're connected with marketing and saying like, want to do this the best we can. We know our stuff is broken, but I want to get this right. Like what does that conversation with the marketing leadership look like for

Joe Fonatana (08:07.339)
Again, I try to keep it simple and typically they start out, hi, I'm Joe. Talk to me like I'm five until I tell you to stop talking to me like I'm five. Walk me through everything you're doing. And I say that not necessarily for their sake, but also for mine. You have to keep your ego at the door when you're coming in and you have to build a sales org out. You may think you're coming in with all of these skills and all of this experience, but a day in the trenches,

can kick you in the short and curlies before you even know it. So rather than walk around grunting like that, I just rather get all of the things out of the way early because that's where I'll determine whether or not they're right or wrong. Because sometimes, often marketing, especially in a small org, is at the, works at the privilege of the president, like they say.

So the knowledge that they have around the product, what it does, how it serves, the challenges, all that fun stuff, may be based on their CEO talking out of their ass because their mouth doesn't know any better. And that's why you have to have these conversations with marketing first. Are they targeting the right people? Do they understand this product? Do you understand the way that it ticks? I work with marketers every day at some of the largest B2B brands. I put them in front of their top prospects.

Seven out of ten know their client. What scares me are the three that don't. And then they wonder why they can't map that marriage with sales that they need to have. So you need to get into the trenches and understand from them, what does my buyer look

Adam Sockel (09:35.371)
Mm -hmm.

Joe Fonatana (09:47.745)
because I'm going to be, I'm going to dance to the beat of their drum when I go out and I start selling, because it's going to be based on their messaging, based on the challenges that they're solving for, based on the ICP that they tell me to target, because I've got to start somewhere. I don't know it myself. And if I do know it and I'm having this conversation, I could tell whether or not they're right or wrong. Do I have an asset that's actually going to help me in the future or is this person going to be as useless as a blind chauffeur on Grand Prix?

Adam Sockel (10:08.052)
Hehe.

Adam Sockel (10:14.986)
Yeah, I not to belabor this point. I just love it so much because of the fact like it can be the same thing from a marketing standpoint too. I do all this research. I'm always seeing what people are saying from a 50 ,000 foot view and I can go to our marketing or I can go to our sales leaders and say, by and large, I am seeing X, Y and Z thing on LinkedIn on across marketing surveys and all this stuff.

and they can say, that's wonderful. I've had three conversations with enterprise sales leaders this week and we need to tweak it to say X, Y and Z because it's more nuanced and more specific. And I love that ability of like kind of the going back and forth. And I just, like I said, I think you just have such a attitude towards it I can see how that's driving success. you strike me as a person who you're very.

Secure in the things that you're doing and you know how to succeed but the you know The purpose of this first season this podcast is to kind of get to like the things that are stressing you out so I want to know what is the thing Joe that's kind of keeping you up at night from a From a work standpoint like are there aspects of the job that you're still banging your head against the wall trying to figure

Joe Fonatana (11:29.325)
It's sales and marketing alignment, believe it or not. So my clients are marketers like you. I put your sales team in front of prospects that are a 100 % match to the ICP. They're not there because of a sales element. They're there to learn. And that inherently turns a sales team off. And it boggles my mind that it does, because at the end of the day, these marketers are delivering exactly

Adam Sockel (11:31.687)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Joe Fonatana (11:59.661)
a sales team needs. Now, if they're not defining to the marketers what they're looking for in the first place, then shame on them. But for as many marketers that I sit and talk to about events, 99 out of 100 are like, you guys are putting on something awesome. This is absolutely fabulous. If I had that conversation with their sales counterparts, and even with the provenance that I bring to the table as a sales leader, you would

I was introducing apes to oxygen. Me no know what event is. Talk to me. I don't understand. What's an ICP? What's my TAL? And I think to myself, 20 marketers are gonna lose their job because your head is so far up your ass. You can pick your own teeth from the back of your mouth. Yeah, I got a lot of one -liners like that. So I apologize if some are not socially acceptable.

Adam Sockel (12:38.042)
Mm -hmm.

Adam Sockel (12:47.002)
Mm -hmm.

Adam Sockel (12:54.755)
love it. No, I

No, I love

Joe Fonatana (12:58.412)
I also have phone calls where I wear shirts like this. So, cause it does. I hurt for these marketers because I know when you do it right. I mean, there's companies where I'm personally responsible. My team is personally, not me, the team that does the actual work, God bless their souls is personally responsible for 70 % of somebody's pipeline and 40 % of their revenue. So when I hear, you know, I posted something the other day about it where I met with the sales team on behalf of my marketing client.

Adam Sockel (13:01.241)
Yeah, that's perfect.

Joe Fonatana (13:27.656)
And they were putting up brick wall after objection, after a misunderstanding, and I'm like, no one of you guys can't close deals. You can't even talk to each other. You have no idea how to develop a relationship with somebody that sits five feet away from you. How could you be expected to develop a relationship with a total stranger? Even if I put them in front of you and they're excited about the chocolate torte that you two are

Adam Sockel (13:51.916)
So thinking about these really high quality events that you're helping put on with these, like you said, the exact ICP that an organization, a marketing team, and then eventually the seller is trying to get in front of. Especially when it comes to these types of events, these executive dinners with enterprise people, the process to bringing them on board can be very long. They can be, you

You gotta build awareness, you gotta know where they're at from an intent standpoint. You gotta eventually get them at the right moment in the right buying cycle. And you mentioned the thing that is constantly stressing you out is that sales and marketing alignment, beyond just maintaining conversation, to dig a little bit deeper, how are you helping these two teams come together and ultimately say like

brought the horse to water, now it's time to drink. Like how are you getting the salespeople to take action and actually get to the finish line?

Joe Fonatana (14:51.445)
Well,

Joe Fonatana (14:54.806)
So for the marketers that get it, I don't need to bring the sales guys in because they're drinking the juice. They're happy to see me like, you're the guy that helped her out. Thanks. The last guy, you know, couldn't spell it if you handed him the eye and tattooed the T on his forehead. So thank you for getting it. The sales teams where they don't quite get it, I've got a couple of opportunities for them to see for themselves what I'm doing and the how behind it.

My events are typically dinners or virtual tastings. I prospect the same way I would for my clients. I host an event focused on a challenge that resonates with my ICP, event marketers, field markers, ABM, demand gens, so on, so forth. You, a few times I'm sure by email have been barraged by my team. But they're there for a challenge and a conversation. And because there's no pitch and there's no slide deck, there's no presentation,

Adam Sockel (15:39.499)
Mm -hmm.

Joe Fonatana (15:50.421)
There's no usher shutting the door and walking them through the benefits of timeshares in Florida. And it's just a conversation where you get the opportunity to earn the right to pitch them. Then they're on board once they see that it is exactly what they need to get these deals closed. Because they're going to walk away with Intel and an understanding of them as people. And you're never going to get that on a disco. You're never going to find it on a demo.

And you can have all of the automated tools out there to help you move something through a pipeline or get the most out of every lead you can, but you can't put a price on human interaction and authenticity because that's all the sale is. It's a series of conversations between somebody who has a problem and somebody who can solve

Adam Sockel (16:38.592)
I love that. We preach that exact same thing here at Orem all about human centric selling and conversations. I guess I'm curious, know, one of the things I'm actually working on a playbook right now about like the ABM and intent selling. Yeah, it's lots of interviews, but I want to ask you, like one of the things I keep thinking about is exactly what you said. Like people enjoy executive dinners that are done properly and those moments because it's not

Joe Fonatana (16:50.535)
OOOH I'M A PLEEBUCKS

Adam Sockel (17:08.438)
We're not trying to sell you that timeshare. We're not saying like, you can't go enjoy that beach until you sign up for this every two weeks, you're gonna come down to the keys. What I'm curious about is there, in my mind, there is a moment where you go from like, okay, we've given you the information, we've talked to you about the benefits and like, we've had this nice casual conversation, we've created this relationship. At a certain point, are you expecting the salespeople to be like, okay,

now is time for that pitch or are you relying on the fact that eventually these people who learn about what you have to offer will technically become a quote unquote inbound? Like is there is there a moment?

Joe Fonatana (17:48.073)
So little column A, little column B. So yeah, there is a moment. There's that moment where you're having a chat with them, that rapport is there, all engines are firing. Hey Adam, what are your thoughts on us just having a conversation on Tuesday? I'd love to learn a little bit more. In the meanwhile, tell me about your kid and his baseball team again, Thursday at five works great. But it's natural, it's authentic.

Adam Sockel (18:11.37)
Yeah. Do you think that is something sellers can learn? mean, obviously, like, I'm the son of a salesman. My brother is better at it than I am, but like, I feel like it's innately hearing it around the dinner table.

Joe Fonatana (18:27.103)
Yeah, during marketing. you can't say you're no good at sales. That line falls flat with

Adam Sockel (18:31.458)
Yeah, I know, but I guess what I was gonna say is like, I've seen my brother casually sell to people because it's like innately in his blood. Yeah. Do you think that is something like, because obviously we talk about here at Oren, we talk about cold calls and we talk about how many at -bats you need to get good at it. And like, that's one of the big benefits. How do you get the sellers that you're working with more quote unquote at -bats in those moments where you're having conversations

Joe Fonatana (18:38.483)
It's in our nature.

Adam Sockel (19:00.492)
high impact, high value targets at these events and things like that. How do

Joe Fonatana (19:06.495)
That's a great question. So I'm a big believer in coaching. Coaching through the simple, stupid stuff like this. Coaching through, if you're a seller in this space, in this day and age, I have to assume you still come to the table with charisma and you're not expecting on AI to do all of the lifting. Although from the people that slide into my DMs or I have an open book appointment on my LinkedIn,

a bit leaves to be desired, you've laughed at a few of those posts yourself and deservedly so. That being said, because I know that the...

Adam Sockel (19:39.562)
I like them, I like

Joe Fonatana (19:48.219)
new salesperson, this new tech heavy salesperson might be lacking that human element. We need to have conversations around how to be charismatic, though you are as flat as a board. it's, don't talk about your product, talk about yourself. These are not your customers. These are four of your friends. You're at a dinner. None of you should afford on a day otherwise.

What are you talking about? These are people you haven't seen in forever. Just what are you going to do to have a conversation? How about this guys? What's your name? Where are you from? Hi, my name's Joe. Start there. If you don't know what to ask, tell me more. Listen to them talk. Again, these are seasoned salespeople. Very rarely am I walking around with, you know, a dipstick that is new to the game.

These are big investments. So you have prime players. There's a subject matter expert in the room. This is not somebody who's, know, Johnny come lately. You're going to have seasoned sales reps that at the very least know how to have a conversation with somebody, even though they may be terrified to talk about product. So I removed that from the equation. Nobody wants to talk about your product. They're not there for your brand. They're not there for my brand. They're not there for the steak dinner. They're there because this topic, these three sentences,

keeps them up at two o 'clock in the morning. Talk to

Joe Fonatana (21:21.813)
So talk to that and talk just to that. And at some point, you're going to connect with somebody. Just give you that twinkle in the eye moment where you're no longer total strangers. And instead of a pillar of stone, there's a stone. And that stone is the foundation of your relationship. And if you're a salesman who's worth their weight in hay, you've got to always be closing. And by that, mean close on your call to actions. Ask for that order. That order is a meeting.

Adam Sockel (21:48.257)
Mm -hmm.

Adam Sockel (21:51.81)
That's so good.

Joe Fonatana (21:52.745)
Maybe that order is let me walk you to your car. Really happy you enjoyed yourself tonight. I'd love to continue talking to you. Insert ass kissing phrase

But get that meeting. if you don't, the smart companies are building out communities for them. If they can't, I will. But a lot of our clients will say, we love the people you put us in front of. We love these conversations. Yeah, 60, 70 % of the people that attend want to talk to us in a week, but they're not ready to buy. DripCane's campaign's not helping you. Nurture campaigns are the way of the dodo bird now.

Adam Sockel (22:24.738)
Mm -hmm.

Joe Fonatana (22:31.187)
So we're building out communities where those prospects get to live with your content. They get to live with your subject matter experts. Again, nobody's pitching anything, no target on their back. They get to do all the tire kicking they want. And when they're ready to buy, now you're looking at a tool that can add a lot of nitrous into your sales

Adam Sockel (22:54.786)
That's fantastic. All right.

Joe Fonatana (22:56.489)
because they may not formally commit with you or even have a real conversation with you. And I see it all the time. They attend an event, they love the conversation, have a follow -up conversation. Everybody's shaking hand, kissing baby, but I'm sorry, not sorry. We're not renewing for another eight months.

Adam Sockel (23:12.963)
Mm -hmm.

Joe Fonatana (23:15.007)
Now you could drip them and email them for those eight months and go from persistent to annoying, which I have a PhD in, or you could put them in a nice warm fuzzy place that they can go to at their leisure. Nobody's dragging them there. They may get a notification. Ooh, Bill's got something. Wow, he was talking about that at the dinner. I remembered that makes me Hershey's Squirt at four o 'clock in the morning. And now they're ready to buy and all that work has been

So second phone call isn't the four hour disco. It's not the three hour demo. It's the, hey, this is what we can spend. This is what we're going to need a statement to work to look like or a POC or whatever acronym with the moment is being used. Let's get this deal closed. And I think it's going to redefine the way people define their leads and stages.

And I'm excited to see what happens

Adam Sockel (24:10.061)
Yeah, that's fantastic. All right, wanna ask you some fun, some lighthearted questions here. I'm asking everybody. These, listen, they're all, honestly, I'm a nerd for all of this, so it's really fun for me the whole time, but the first one of these is, you don't have to name names. What was the first job you ever had? It be when you were a kid, it could be that one when you were 19. What was the first job you remember having?

Joe Fonatana (24:16.392)
These weren't fun lighthearted questions.

Joe Fonatana (24:33.32)
first I remember having it, I like five, I worked at my dad's pizzerias.

Adam Sockel (24:38.145)
You having a father who owns pizzerias is honestly, it's perfect. I don't want to say stereotypical, but that's amazing. Okay, what were you doing as a...

Joe Fonatana (24:42.226)
Does not surprise anybody,

Joe Fonatana (24:46.958)
it should be Italian boy from Brooklyn and moved to Jersey. He only moved to Jersey because he didn't want to. He there was too much competition in Brooklyn for pizza.

Adam Sockel (24:54.935)
What were you doing as a five -year -old in the pizza shop?

Joe Fonatana (24:58.442)
So what was I doing? A lot of wiping tables. The old man would get me, like, hey, can I have five bucks for this or 10 bucks for that? And he had pizza ovens. And like the width of a pizza oven is like that. Back in the day, they used to close stores on Sundays. So Sunday afternoon, he would bring me in, because I was the only thing thin enough to fit into the oven to get the corners

Adam Sockel (25:11.776)
Mm -hmm.

Adam Sockel (25:25.198)
man, okay, wait.

Joe Fonatana (25:26.066)
And the worst part is, I'm cursing him out, but he can hear me because the oven echoes. Like stupid ass just wanted five bucks for a comic

Adam Sockel (25:32.168)
my god. Before I help out before I get to the rest of these, what I can't not ask what is the what's the best pizza and in the five boroughs? Where would you go? But where would you tell someone to go if you were getting pizza?

Joe Fonatana (25:50.347)
Straight out pie like you're used to seeing everywhere. Joey's on either Sixth Avenue in the Village or there's one in Brooklyn. If you ever see the Tobey Maguire, Peter Parker, Spiderman's, it's the pizzeria he works

Adam Sockel (26:00.027)
Mm -hmm.

Yeah.

Joe Fonatana (26:09.322)
But I mean, can easily do 15, 20 pizzerias, depends on what you want. If you like thick, deep, like a deep crust, there's a Prince Street pizza and they make something called a spicy Sicilian. So it's a Sicilian spice, spicy as all hell and has fresh chunks of pepperoni on it. So if you're looking for a healthy lifestyle and smart eating, that's the place to

Adam Sockel (26:32.624)
I will say Joe's, my wife and I went, we've been in New York a bunch, but we were there in December and Joe's and then there's a place around the corner like La Industry, think it's like, it's in the village as well. It's like a couple streets away from the original Joe's. It's also pretty good, but yeah, this was, I wanna ask you a bunch more pizza questions, but I won't, I'll be respectful. What was

Joe Fonatana (26:55.819)
It's fine, it's fine, we still got 28 minutes, we a lot of filler

Adam Sockel (26:58.534)
What is the worst job you've ever had and you can't say cleaning out a pizza oven?

Joe Fonatana (27:05.066)
man, the worst job I ever had was during my retirement phase. My brother's like, you're very charismatic. Let's start a restaurant. So I'm black sheep. I'm the only person in my family that's not a chef that doesn't own a restaurant. So he's like, come in, you'd be great with people. And you know, I did some waitering for my family when I was growing up. So it was nothing new to me. It was a nightmare because...

I tell sales leaders all the time or CEOs, give me 30 days. I'm going to know as much about your company and can talk as well about your company and industry that you can. I am a one trick pony. That is my trick. And I can't tell you how many CEOs that piss off. That's never going to happen. You don't understand the intricacies of AI cybersecurity and yada yada yada and gibberish, global gloke. And then before you know it, we're sitting there having a conversation around all of that stuff. My point being,

Adam Sockel (27:44.142)
Mm -hmm.

Joe Fonatana (28:05.193)
I caught on to the finer aspects of being a chef because I'd spent my entire life doing it. So he'd hate that I'd come up with dishes in his own place. Plus we were the American choppers of restaurants. So there's me in the front. No, sir, I'm terribly sorry. There's a 45 minute wait, sir.

and in the background, my brother's like, you tell that son of a bitch he wants a fancy good burger keg. Get the hell out of my restaurant. Sorry sir, he's not talking to you. I'm talking to him!

Adam Sockel (28:41.763)
man.

Joe Fonatana (28:43.891)
Sir, I promise he's not talking to you. It's his way of being funny. I'm not being funny!

Adam Sockel (28:51.435)
So needless to say that wasn't a long,

Joe Fonatana (28:53.758)
it was a nightmare. It was a nightmare. We would end up like, I think people came. Yeah, the food was insane. It was a very small shop. Like I talked to him into years before it became a fad, like farm to table. I was like, we're five minutes from all of these amazing farms. So instead of being beholden to a menu, let's just be beholden to the farmer. They tell us what's coming and that's what we make. And as they stay in Italian, quissugats. This is what I'm making you. either take this or go home.

And I liked that because it gave it a sense of exclusivity. But my brother was used to pizzerias where it's a mindless guy. I have a pizza with pepperoni instead of somebody that's coming in with a refined taste? God forbid you questioned anything. So that's why I made it like, this is what's on the menu tonight, folks. If you don't like it, there's a pizzeria down the street. There's a Chinese spot across the street, but please get the hell out before he hears you.

Adam Sockel (29:52.847)
my god, that's incredible. So no restaurants in the future for you then, Joe?

Joe Fonatana (29:54.949)
And we would.

Joe Fonatana (29:59.529)
I don't know, because sometimes it does call to me. Like I love that social aspect of it. But, and for a while I use that to do restaurant consulting. out East and Long Island, you know, the Hamptons, all these hoity -toity spots. I had a hankering for it because I call myself a pipeline whisperer today, but 10 years ago I would have called myself a chef whisperer because I knew how to get through their ego.

their pride, their drug addiction, their ego, and I think I said ego once or twice, but their ego to help them, you know, take full advantage of the artists that they

What it didn't like is the...

Joe Fonatana (30:50.801)
I can only think of curse words. The bleep that goes with running fine dining establishments with people with very particular tastes and very large wallets. Like you're thanking them for their patronage and at the same time you're hoping that they, you know, fall into the fire pit.

Adam Sockel (30:58.023)
Mm -hmm.

Adam Sockel (31:09.137)
Yeah, that makes sense. Getting back to it from a work standpoint, do you have a favorite app or tool for productivity? Is there something that you use to keep you on track day in and day

Joe Fonatana (31:21.782)
I hate to say it it's going to make me sound like grandpa time. My greatest app for productivity is Google Calendar. I schedule every minute. Because the only thing worse than my short -term memory is my short -term memory. I get the reminders of it. I can see it in one spot. It deals with the fact that even though I consider myself Gen X, I'm probably Boomer, at least in the way that I act and what everybody around me will tell you.

Adam Sockel (31:36.699)
Yeah.

Joe Fonatana (31:52.633)
I can just see everything there. I've always been a very simple, stupid salesperson. I still prefer living out of spreadsheets over any CRM any day of the week, regardless of the bells and whistles. Because like your organization, I am human centric. I did sales when I had a stack of business, a stack of index cards. My CRM was a filing cabinet. My database was a rotary phone.

Rolodex is ruled the day. And when that happened, I had a series of notebooks in front of me. Notebooks for, I still do, who am I talking? Notebooks for client meetings. Notebook for internal meetings. Notebook for LinkedIn.

Adam Sockel (32:27.717)
Mm

Adam Sockel (32:31.801)
Wilson, there with you man, right there with you.

Adam Sockel (32:39.082)
yeah, I'm right there with

Joe Fonatana (32:40.969)
And my manifesto about how much I hate marketers and salespeople that don't work together. I add another post on it today, because I felt yesterday, I looked at my post yesterday, I was like, okay, I'm just another talker, a talking head on LinkedIn, because I saw 18 posts and they like, just communicate with marketing. That's all you need to do. I tried to give some suggestions today, but I think each of my posts sounds angrier and more old mannish than the next.

Adam Sockel (32:58.083)
Mm -hmm. It's important.

Joe Fonatana (33:09.242)
My son wants to record a series of videos in black and white where I'm sitting in a rocking chair pontificating on sales stuff from the

Adam Sockel (33:18.006)
Listen, I get it. Somebody sent me a DM the other day, was like, man, you are spicy lately. Because I'm just the same. I feel like I'm getting angry. The more online I am, the angrier I am at every single idea I see. I'm like, that's not going to work. Don't do that. That's stupid. I feel like there's a place for grumpy old men, the LinkedIn post. It's kind of like the old movie. I think it's OK.

Joe Fonatana (33:42.578)
That's where I'd like to go with that. Just do some grumpy old man posts.

Adam Sockel (33:45.58)
Yeah. Speaking of calendar, do you have an ideal workday? What's the best case scenario for you for a day that you feel most productive and happiest?

Joe Fonatana (33:55.401)
So this probably comes from a military background, but, my day starts early and I, and because of mental health issues that can bubble up, I need to be up early. need to be disciplined and I need to be structured. So I'm up and at them probably every morning before 4 30 AM. I'll do the same ice shower. I'll do the same run.

or at the very least a very fast walk screaming at the people that don't blow, know, that aren't stopping at the stop signs on my corner, you know, because it's four o 'clock in the morning. And then again, I depend on that Google calendar to show me everything that I'm doing through the day from personal writing and breathing to manifestations and meditations to the time I'm gonna spend on LinkedIn to the time I spend with volunteer work. And by that, mean,

I did a post on it earlier, but I'm beginning to feel like my best place in the world is as a therapist for sales and marketers. The first facilitator, I want to call it, where you need to get together, you need to have conversations, but you guys don't even know what to talk about or how to get started. So let's spend 30 minutes. I'm going to throw three ideas out at you. If you can't put together an aligned program in 30 days, one of these need to lose your

Adam Sockel (35:11.775)
Mm

Joe Fonatana (35:21.649)
And it's not a silly condescending jerky remark. It's true. Because if you can't communicate with your colleagues as a marketer or as a salesperson, how can you be relied upon to effectively sell the value prop to a total stranger?

No one cares if you live or die. They care if the client or the prospect lives or die. We're expendable. Most clients are not. They'll work to keep a client where they may or may not work to keep

Adam Sockel (35:42.578)
I love that.

Adam Sockel (35:50.022)
Yeah. Okay. got one more question for you. As a person with so much sales experience, if someone were to pick up the phone and cold call you, what is an opener that would at least get you to hear their pitch? Like what's the type of cold call that you would hear the rep out

Joe Fonatana (36:10.376)
Be honest with me. I'm calling you. I saw what you did. So looking at this, come correct. Like come with your knowledge. Know why you're calling me. If you come educated, if you come correct like that, I will hear you out. I leave like that booked appointment open on LinkedIn because I'll listen to anybody pitch

if they're pitching me from a place of I want to learn or I really think you're a match and here's why. Most of the times you're not, we'll spend the time slicing and dicing while you're not. But for the most part, I'll hear you out. Just come correct. And if you come with your short and curlies between your fingers, then I'm going to have a field day with you. More often than not, I will start to treat it like a sales coaching call.

And if you're gonna come that misprepared, you're telling me you don't care about your job. You're telling me that for every hour I've invested in you, you have invested zero in yourself, which means you are a bad investment. And I sell bad investments. And I tell that to salespeople their first day. For every 10 minutes you're willing to invest in yourself, I'm willing to invest an hour back in

Adam Sockel (37:23.427)
Love it. That's...

Adam Sockel (37:34.648)
Yeah, do the work.

Joe Fonatana (37:36.006)
You can't beat that investment because it will pay returns from how you carry yourself to the mindset you bring to the table, to how you prepare, to how you deal with success, to how you deal with adversity, and most importantly, how you deal with your colleagues. The salespeople, they are the straw that stores the drink. I hate to say it. Maybe the only thing closer are customer experience and customer success teams, the people that actually have to deliver the solution.

Adam Sockel (37:37.571)
Yeah.

Joe Fonatana (38:04.873)
And if you can't communicate and if you don't know how to bridge those gaps, be aligned with all of these respective teams, you don't deserve to be there. Not in this market when there's so many people that are looking to feed their families. And the only reason they lost their job was because their CEO didn't want to justify their poor decision -making by keeping the 30 % of the workforce that they should have never have hired in the first place.

Adam Sockel (38:29.141)
Yeah, I love that. All right, Joe, I'll put your LinkedIn and people can find you in the show notes, but is there anything else you want people to know about your company, anything that you want them to check out before we sign off here? What's something people should know

Joe Fonatana (38:32.22)
R

Joe Fonatana (38:48.252)
I build pipeline. I call myself a pipeline whisperer for a number of different reasons. Yeah, I can put you in rooms with your prospects, but I can also help you better ascertain why you need to be aligned with your colleagues, how to get aligned, and all of the fun stuff in between. So I'm always down to clown. I'm a big believer in paying it forward. So if you are facing any of these issues,

and don't have the money for a high priced consultant, this is not one of those cases where you get where you pay for. I'm doing this as my penance for those guys when I was 19 and 20 that I didn't know how to manage and treated like dogs with fleas. I know the people that I've wronged as a sales leader. And I do these things now too, because I grew up in Catholic schools, I've got all the guilt that goes with it. Now I've got to make up for

And I feel one of the best ways to do that is to have these real -time conversations. Hi Joe, I'm Janice. This is my sales colleague Bill and Bill should be shot in the face because he's a cloud who doesn't listen to anybody. Bill, what do you have to add

Adam Sockel (39:59.462)
man, that's amazing. Joe, this was so much fun. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Joe Fonatana (40:04.617)
The pleasure is all mine. I really, really appreciate this. Thank you so much.

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In the latest episode of Bold Calling, presented by Orum, host Adam Sockel sits down with Joe Fontana, North American Sales Director for BuyerForesight, for an engaging conversation about what it takes to build strong relationships in sales and instill discipline in yourself and your team. Joe brings over two decades of sales leadership and consulting experience, offering listeners a no-nonsense approach to navigating the modern sales landscape.

If you’re looking to sharpen your sales skills and better align your sales and marketing efforts, Joe’s insights are a must-listen. In this episode, he shares actionable strategies for fostering authentic relationships with prospects, driving pipeline success, and structuring your day for maximum productivity.

Key Takeaways from the Episode:

Aligning Sales and Marketing Through Simplicity
Joe believes that sales and marketing must start on the same page, with open and clear communication. He explains, “Talk to me like I’m five until I tell you to stop.” This back-to-basics approach ensures that marketing teams are accurately conveying the company’s messaging and customer profile, which is critical for sales success. By aligning early and removing ego, sales teams can better leverage the insights from marketing.

Building Authentic Relationships with Prospects
Joe emphasizes the importance of building trust before making a sales pitch. When hosting events or dinners for prospects, Joe ensures the focus is on meaningful conversations rather than a hard sell. “No one’s there for your brand—they’re there because this problem keeps them up at 2 AM.” These authentic interactions lay the foundation for future deals, ensuring the prospect feels understood before they’re ever asked to commit.

Discipline and Daily Structure in Sales
Discipline is a key element of Joe’s success, and it starts with his personal routine. Joe begins every day at 4:30 AM, following a structured schedule that includes everything from meditation to client meetings. He stresses the importance of discipline, not just in sales but in maintaining mental and physical well-being. “Discipline and structure are what keep me mentally sharp and ready to tackle the day’s challenges.”

Coaching Sellers to Be Charismatic
In today’s tech-heavy sales environment, Joe has noticed that many sellers struggle with the human side of sales. To counter this, he coaches salespeople on how to connect with prospects in a natural, authentic way. “You don’t need to talk about your product first—just be human and make a connection.” By encouraging conversation and removing the pressure of a pitch, salespeople can build rapport and ultimately close more deals.

Creating Communities for Long-Term Engagement
Not all prospects are ready to buy right away, but that doesn’t mean the relationship ends. Joe advocates for building communities where prospects can continue to engage with your content and subject matter experts over time. “When the time comes, they’ll be ready to buy because they’ve lived with your content and know you’re the right fit.” This approach ensures prospects are nurtured in a way that feels natural, without the pressure of traditional follow-ups.

Why Should I Care About Any of This?

This episode is filled with practical advice from a sales leader who has seen it all. Joe Fontana’s approach to relationship-building, alignment between sales and marketing, and the discipline required to succeed in today’s fast-paced sales environment is invaluable for anyone looking to improve their sales game. Whether you’re just starting out or leading a team, Joe’s insights are immediately actionable and will help you structure your day, build better relationships, and drive long-term success.

If you’re ready to up your sales game and master the art of building authentic relationships, you won’t want to miss this episode of Bold Calling.