Jonathan Pogact, on making the market remember you

Adam Sockel (00:00.99)
You're listening to Bold Calling, a podcast presented by Orem where every episode we're bringing on the biggest and brightest minds in the tech and sales industries for a discussion about their biggest challenges and the unique ways they're solving them. I'm your host, Adam Sokol, and today I'm joined by Jonathan Pogack, VP of marketing at seamless .ai. Jonathan, thank you so much for joining me today.

Jonathan Pogact (00:23.438)
Hey, what's up, Adam? Appreciate that. I thought you were gonna give me a promotion real quick.

Adam Sockel (00:27.677)
Yeah, I almost threw just like a senior on it. I don't know why I was literally looking at the words that I was going to say and I was just going to, I should just made you like an SVP and said, congratulations. They wanted me to let you know on this podcast. It's not for your company, but you know, maybe, maybe that'll be my, yeah, that'll be the second iteration of this podcast. Yeah. For people who have maybe are joining in for the first time, just to let everybody know, we'll talk about Seamless and Jonathan's career a little bit first, and we'll get into the biggest stressors that.

Jonathan Pogact (00:41.55)
Appreciate it.

Adam Sockel (00:57.18)
that he's trying to tackle and I'll be trying to solve them and then we'll have some fun at the end. So first things first, Jonathan, kind of walk our listeners through your career and how you got to be where you are at the moment.

Jonathan Pogact (01:09.134)
Cool, I started my career, it was actually inspired out of high school. So I went to a very small high school in New York, in North Salem, New York, shout out. And for the second half of the year, it was all internships. So you didn't go to class, you took on an internship and it had to be with a real company with a real project.

creating like real business outcomes to some degree, right? As much as you can do as a student. So this was the year 2000, if you remember that. So Y2K was going on and everyone was freaking out. And at the time, you know, at a gateway computer at home. So at that time I was like a computer whiz, or at least I thought I was. I thought I wanted to get into IT. So I took an internship with a direct marketing agency and I was doing Y2K compliance, which sounded awesome.

Adam Sockel (01:35.483)
Yeah.

Adam Sockel (01:42.234)
I do.

Jonathan Pogact (02:02.336)
at the time.

But really whatever it was, was just like updating 200 different machines with the correct date. So I met a lot of people there. I was clear, I was just a kid, right? A student, but this was back in the big days of AOL and being publishers and, you know, a lot of direct marketers out there. And for those that don't know direct marketing, it's just like measurable marketing, right? Like back then it was direct mail and package inserts and stuff like that, phone call campaigns. And I caught the bug.

Adam Sockel (02:13.977)
Mm -hmm.

Jonathan Pogact (02:33.92)
I saw a lot of people very successful and working with big brands that I recognized and I knew about and from there I decided all right maybe IT is not for me but I want to be like these people. So that's what I did. I went to school at night and during the day took on part -time work and long story short the first half of my career was really immeasurable.

marketing, direct marketing, dealt with frequency and recency and monetary value models, working with big historical publishers in New York, like Reader's Digest, Disney Publishing, and all these crazy companies and a lot of them aren't around anymore, right? Or at least not the same as they used to be. But that's where I got my backbone, who's in data. And I...

Adam Sockel (03:00.119)
Mm -hmm.

Jonathan Pogact (03:21.485)
you know, help them start some of their first interactive marketing practices at the time, email before, you know, right around CanSpan, for those that remember that, mobile marketing when you used to call it mobile marketing. And from there, I just caught the bug, ended up making a move out to Ohio, worked for a digital marketing agency there, a few different digital marketing agencies. And in the last five, six years caught the startup bug.

worked for a company out of Akron called Dripps, founder of conversational texting, shout out, and then Steamless AI where I am today.

Adam Sockel (03:50.805)
Mm -hmm.

Adam Sockel (04:01.972)
Listen, as I told you before, so I'm recording, I am born and raised and still in the Northeast Ohio area. So you can shout out this area as much as you want. This is a Ohio safe space here. So I appreciate that. Yeah, underrated food scene. I won't lie. We have a lot of pretty amazing chefs in this area. And yeah, I totally agree. But that'll be we'll save that for the Ohio podcast. And maybe I'll launch some day.

Jonathan Pogact (04:15.949)
There you go. A lot of good food in Ohio. I kind of miss some of it.

Jonathan Pogact (04:29.453)
Alright, deal.

Adam Sockel (04:31.22)
So tell people a little bit about Seamless AI and what you guys are doing. And it's obviously extremely fascinating and interesting for me as an Oromite, as we call ourselves here, because of what we do and how it plays along really well with what you guys do. But for people who are unfamiliar, talk about the Seamless AI strategy and what you guys are doing for your prospects and your customers.

Jonathan Pogact (04:54.126)
Yeah, I'd love to. Since we're both in the space, right? A lot of people listening to this know that, you know, you need two things, amongst some others, right, to be successful in sales and your go -to -market. You need workflow. You need data. Data powers workflow, and you can't empower data without workflow. So we are a real -time B2B data platform for anyone looking for email, cell phones, direct dials, sales insights, buyer intent, et cetera, to power your go -to -market engine.

Adam Sockel (05:24.305)
Yeah. And, and obviously, you know, the reason this is so important, people who I'm kind of neck deep in an AI and sales dev report as we speak, like depending on when this comes out, the Orem report will either have come out or is about to come out. And it's how I've spent my last several months is honestly interviewing people like you on a non -recorded line as it might be talking about this exact thing. And, you know, as much, you know,

We are a tool where at our core we help people get into more conversations faster. We eliminate all of the manual aspects of cold calling and dialing. But if you don't have the right numbers, it doesn't really matter. 95 % of the market at any given time isn't actually purchasing when you reach out to them. So all that intent data and all of that information is so, so important. And it makes me curious for you from a marketing standpoint. Obviously, we're both in marketing. A lot of people I've talked to on the podcast so far.

have been the sales space and so we have similar but different goals. And so for you, what has been, without kind of giving away the secret sauce, what's been sort of the most successful way from a marketing standpoint that you have helped the market understand the importance of what you provide?

Jonathan Pogact (06:38.605)
Mm -hmm. I think it's a, you never answer that question, right? But I think some of the most important things that we've focused on is getting rid of manual list building.

right, or automating a sales process. And there's many steps involved when it comes to sales automation, but where I started my career, we had a CRM called Gold Mine. I don't know if anyone's ever heard of that before, but it's just a, it's like an old, old database. And the way that you'd fill in numbers or contact data for that database is that you would do like Google searches and directory searches actually at the time. And you'd put in all that data one by one. And by the end of the day, you might have 10 contacts for people that you

you might reach out to tomorrow. There are still organizations that operate like that today.

right? There, there BDRs or SDRs might spend the morning, Google searching or guessing algorithms, even believe it or not, people still calling phone trees as well. I'm sure you see that at Orem in order to find the right person to find the right contact. Our goal is to automate that for you and for anybody, right? It's to make list building easy. It's to make it part of the strategy, not what you're spending all of your time on each and every day. And it's not just about getting data, it's the right data. And it's also the right data for those that are on the buying committee.

Adam Sockel (07:37.74)
Mm -hmm.

Jonathan Pogact (07:57.727)
and just getting you a more complete profile of your prospect all in one place. That's really where we spend a lot of our time educating people not only in how to use the platform, but why would you use this and how could you?

Adam Sockel (08:10.7)
So with all that in mind, to kind of get to the big question that I'm asking every guest here, what is keeping you up at night? What is stressing you out most about this whole process currently and how are you working to resolve that big stress?

Jonathan Pogact (08:27.115)
I don't, I know this sounds like a cop out. I don't really get stressed out. I love what I do. I know a lot of people like that too. And I find challenges to be big opportunities and I love solving big challenges and seeing the results of those, whether it's a success or not. I think the big challenge today is it's about right place, right time.

Adam Sockel (08:31.692)
Mm -hmm.

Jonathan Pogact (08:54.475)
Right, where are people spending their time? How are they making decisions? And then are they going to be the right decisions? How well informed are they? And are we leading that conversation or are others doing it for us? The data space is very competitive. You know, you ask anybody and it's not so much why do you need data? It's more about who you're going to work with to get your data, how that plays into their workflow. Is it integrated? Do they need all in one? Do they not?

It's always, are you doing the right thing? Are you meeting people where they're at? And are you providing enough value in return for their attention?

Adam Sockel (09:32.78)
with that in mind then to tweak it slightly, for you, what do you see as the biggest opportunity at this moment?

Jonathan Pogact (09:40.011)
I think the biggest opportunity is in partnerships. At least if you were to ask me today, which you did, I'm going to say partnering. And it's not only just, you know, that could be a very generic term. It's partnering with people and it's partnering with companies. And what we've all seen is user generated content really take off within the last few years. I think the line is really blurred between B2B and B2C and we're buying more and more from people every single day. And,

Adam Sockel (09:45.676)
in the next video.

Jonathan Pogact (10:08.811)
Yeah, and then companies, of course, right? Are you aligned with a company that can help accelerate your go -to -market? I always like partnering with bigger companies. Companies are a little bit bigger than us, but we share the same ideal client profile and the relationship is generally pretty symbiotic, meaning they're bigger, right? Which means they might have more process or better reach, more of a bigger audience. They might not always have that, by the way, but let's say they do. And we have,

We're generally a little bit smaller than some of these billion dollar companies. We have speed, we have innovation, we have agility, we can execute quickly. A lot of companies I talk to in our space that we partner with sometimes, they need a quarter in advance to plan.

Adam Sockel (10:42.668)
Mm -hmm.

Jonathan Pogact (10:57.354)
we'll hit the ground running this afternoon, right? So they really like that about us. And I really appreciate and enjoy the maturity of some of their processes and of course tapping into their network, of course.

Adam Sockel (10:59.852)
Yeah.

Adam Sockel (11:14.252)
Yeah, I was laughing because I feel like we're in similar situations. Orem is technically a startup still. It's the same thing for us. We were able to spin things up really quickly. The podcast that we're literally recording right now was an idea two months ago. The longest process to get all this, it wasn't an approval from...

Jonathan Pogact (11:23.434)
Yeah.

Adam Sockel (11:41.228)
my VP of marketing or our executive leadership team, the longest aspect of it was procurement of the tool that we're recording right now, just because that takes time to go through legal and everything. And that is definitely the benefit from a startup standpoint. I will say we, from a marketing team, we're very fortunate, and I'm guessing you guys might be in the same space, is like the people that we can get in front of and explain to them the...

value of ORM, of being able to have more conversations. Like when we can get in front of people and explain it, they get it. They're like, yeah, of course we want to build more pipeline. Our challenge is from a budgetary standpoint, we're a smaller company. And so it's making those, you know, those selections of where we want to be and how we want to get in front of people. And for you, how are you evaluating your mention to the beginning of this conversation? You're a big fan of data. How are you evaluating where you can best...

get in front of prospects to maximize the message that you can get out into the market.

Jonathan Pogact (12:45.249)
I mean it

I think it's important to have a foundation in the fundamentals, right? Those will never go away. And what do I mean by fundamentals? I mean, great content on your website, you know, discoverable content, evergreen content. It's not the hot thing to talk about these days or any more really, right? There's there are other things, but those are like your mutual fund investments, right? They're going to compound over time. They're going to build interest. You're going to start lining your pockets and it's going to be pretty quiet, right? It's not going to be like,

Adam Sockel (12:50.86)
Mm -hmm.

Adam Sockel (13:08.172)
Mm -hmm.

Jonathan Pogact (13:16.635)
crypto, which just spikes up one day and all of a sudden you're rich. Those efforts will pay off, but it takes patience and it takes a little bit of time. It's a little science. It's a little, you know, math, but I think you need to have those things going and you need to have some budget. And when I say budget, time can be budget, right? It doesn't mean you need to spend money. You need to have budget for experimenting.

Adam Sockel (13:41.74)
Mm -hmm.

Jonathan Pogact (13:41.777)
An experiment could be a new event you'd never heard of before. An experiment could be an industry you haven't tapped in before. It could be a newsletter sponsorship. It could be working together with a great brand and B2B, going to market together.

on a co -promoted webinar, right? Could be any of those things, but I do think you need to constantly have kind of this innovation pipeline of things that you're trying that are easy to test, that you can get out of very easily as well, right? Or you can scale. And that's really what it comes down to, in my opinion.

Adam Sockel (14:18.284)
I want to dig a little bit deeper in this. I have found that anytime I've had a market around this podcast, it turns into almost like therapy for me. So I apologize, but I want to, I want to ask you about that. You mentioned like, can keeping that time or budgeted time for, for innovation. And, and for me, a word that I'm always using from a marketing standpoint is triage. So, you know, I, I do all of the content here at ORM and I'm constantly triaging. Like, like you said, no one wants to excited. The majority of people don't want to excitedly talk about.

Jonathan Pogact (14:40.103)
Mm -hmm.

Adam Sockel (14:48.14)
SEO writing until you show your leadership how many keywords you're literally in first place for on those SERP results. And so we spend a lot of time doing that, but I spend a lot of time doing what we're doing right now and larger things. And like for me, I admit it is a challenge for me to continuously keep space to innovate and be willing to experiment and things. So for you, how do you triage like knowing...

the tried and true what's working versus giving yourself and your team that freedom to fail if that's what happens, but to keep experimenting. How do you ensure you're budgeting that?

Jonathan Pogact (15:30.728)
You have to make it a priority, right? If you don't measure it, it doesn't get done. So you have to make it whatever that means to you, right? A KPI, an OKR, a weekly check -in, it has to be something that you are measuring you or your team's performance on. It could just be on yourself, right? And you're accountable to whoever you report up to, whether it's your CEO or VP or director or whatever it is, it's just making it a priority.

Adam Sockel (15:32.268)
Mm -mm.

Jonathan Pogact (15:59.576)
So it's a promise to yourself, it's a promise to your organization. By the end of this month, I'm gonna do this thing specifically, always use smart goals. I'm gonna do this thing specifically and it's gonna be done by this time. This is what we can expect from it and if we don't expect it, then it's not gonna hurt that much because here's the downside. You just have to do those things. Not everything's gonna be a big win. And as you start growing, I'm sure you've seen this too, those big lightning strike wins.

They're few and far in between, right? What you want is you want those little winds to start adding up, right? And you want to compound them together and go, okay, keep that thing going. Now let's try a new thing.

Adam Sockel (16:39.436)
Yeah, that's such a good point. It is really this like, this combination. Our VP of sales likes to say shavings make a pile. He's talking about all the little small wins that we can get as an organization, but then also when we see a whale, you know, enterprise account come through, we also know that is also part of that huge pile. And I totally hear you, like I said, we've done some SEO work that we're really proud of in the last month. And then we've also did a brand campaign at the beginning of this year called Sell Yeah that -

Jonathan Pogact (16:48.007)
Mm -hmm.

Jonathan Pogact (17:00.007)
Yeah.

Adam Sockel (17:09.398)
unexpectedly like kind of took off from the market and people love the swag and the messaging of it. And it was really fun to see. And, you know, we also say brand is demand here. And I love I love that our sales team also believes that it's nice for us to be able to play in some spaces. And that's probably the thing that we're most proud of is like from a creativity standpoint. But and you can paint with a broad brush here. You don't need to like name names. But is there an experiment that you're most proud of that you guys have done since you've been there at seamless that has been like, yeah, we tried this thing and it was.

Jonathan Pogact (17:21.959)
Mm -hmm.

Adam Sockel (17:39.382)
either a lot of fun and like really kind of caught on or it was just like much more successful than you thought it would be? Is there one that comes to mind?

Jonathan Pogact (17:46.76)
We're always experimenting. I'll give, let's see what I can do here.

Adam Sockel (17:49.365)
You

Jonathan Pogact (17:54.248)
I'll say there was an event that we did, boy that was a year and a half ago already in 2022 that went really, really well for us. And what I mean by experiment is for the first time we thought, okay, we're gonna go all in and be a headline sponsor. We're gonna be the headline, that's it. We're paying for the top billing. The conference was run by Jeb Blunt, who's awesome by the way. One of the best salespeople I've ever, ever spoke with.

Adam Sockel (18:04.693)
Mm -hmm.

Jonathan Pogact (18:24.153)
I'm sure a billion people will share the same. But it was a great opportunity for us to like own the space. So we got 1200 square feet and we had a podcast booth in there. We hired a barista that did little custom logos. We had a huge booth and TVs and branded everything and had our books from our CEO all over the place. We had a keynote. It was crazy. And our board was like, why are you spending so much money on this?

Adam Sockel (18:45.362)
Mm -hmm.

Jonathan Pogact (18:52.968)
Conferences don't work, events don't work, people don't go to those anymore. So while this is not like the most exciting case study, what I learned, what we learned from it is if you go all in on an initiative and you've got some scent of interest that this can play out, the back of the envelope math plays out. And here's what the back of the envelope math was for us.

Adam Sockel (18:56.946)
Mm -hmm.

Adam Sockel (19:13.873)
Mm -hmm.

Jonathan Pogact (19:16.68)
It's a conference of about a thousand sales leaders, okay? And multiple industries that aligned with ours, so it's like check, check. We get to make an impact and what I mean by impact. And I think a lot of startups will benefit from this and probably feel the same way as like you feel bigger than you actually are based on your presence. So we have the opportunity to have an elevated presence.

Adam Sockel (19:35.537)
Mm -hmm.

Jonathan Pogact (19:41.48)
We keynoted in front of everybody and it was a huge success. We did some silly things too. Like we bought at the end of the conference, you know, when you're at, when you're in a convention center, conference food, you know, rubber chicken, it just gets tired by the last day. So we literally bought everybody Chick -fil -A sandwiches without anyone knowing. And we had a table as they were leaving just filled with these Chick -fil -A sandwiches and we were just tossing them out. And, you know, at the end of the day, people remembered us. They had a great experience with us.

Adam Sockel (19:54.449)
Mm -hmm.

Jonathan Pogact (20:09.48)
We provided a lot of value and we made money, which is everything you want. It's everything you want.

Adam Sockel (20:13.519)
Mm -hmm.

Adam Sockel (20:17.071)
Yeah, I love that. We just recently, we brought in a person, we needed a new events marketer, but we specifically...

The title is experiences manager. And I love that our demand, I love that our demand gender director thought of this way because the person we brought on is creating exactly that. And to your point, like even she's only been here a couple of months and her name's Emily helped shout her out. Please, whoever's listening to this, don't poach her. Cause we, yeah, we adore her so much, but she, her first event she did was this really small space. And we were trying to like, okay, how can we be bigger than we are? And again, we're.

Jonathan Pogact (20:28.487)
Nice.

Jonathan Pogact (20:40.647)
Good luck, Emily.

Adam Sockel (20:50.317)
We specialize in things around the phone. So she got like an old timey, like London phone booth that you would like recognize anywhere. And she brought, she bought these yellow, like old cordless phones. I'm holding up a fake phone to my ear for everyone who's listening and not watching this podcast. She bought these like bright yellow.

cordless recorded phones like you used to see when we were kids and they were branded as Oram and then she would just like have people take photos with them and all these different things and people saw them on LinkedIn and like we had to end up doing a massive giveaway because people were like because the phone itself plugs into your computer and you can actually use it if you want to call people it'll connect and it'll connect with your Oram and like people were losing their minds about it and then the next place she did is she did petty caps that were just Oram branded and so they were driving all around town during this event.

And same thing, like people were like, wow, you guys are everywhere. And like in reality, we were just on the petty cab, but that looks like we're everywhere because it's all around town. And I love that so much. Like, just be memorable. Find a way for the people. Remember your name and the Chick -fil -A thing. Yeah, I want to, I'm going to borrow that Chick -fil -A idea. That's such a good idea.

Jonathan Pogact (21:54.663)
Yeah. Own it.

Jonathan Pogact (22:00.551)
so strong. We were in Atlanta too. So it's like home of Chick -fil -A in Georgia. It just, it was just perfect. But I mean, I think a good takeaway even just from your stories, like own, own the situation you're in. And that could just be a phone call and leaving a great impression with the person you're on the phone with. It could be your website. It could be a blog post. It could be an event, right? I know people listening to this are going to be like, wow, he sponsored an event. Real big risk taking their POGAT. Right. It's not so much the event was a big risk or it's

Adam Sockel (22:04.619)
Yeah.

Adam Sockel (22:12.235)
Mm -hmm.

Adam Sockel (22:20.65)
Mm -hmm.

Jonathan Pogact (22:30.456)
a risk at all, it's just more so about making the most out of your time, right? Being the most memorable you can possibly be, either as an individual and a brand, ideally both.

Adam Sockel (22:39.593)
Yeah, I love that. I mean, we had a coffee and margarita station, not at the same time. Coffee in the morning, margaritas after the show. And it said, pour with aurum. Like, just like, we're big on puns. Yeah, we're doing a dinosaur one coming up. It says, roar with aurum. Like, it's just like finding ways to, like I said, make people remember you. So, okay, I wanna get into a couple of like, kind of fun questions before I get you out of here. What was your...

Jonathan Pogact (22:50.982)
guys.

Adam Sockel (23:04.745)
first job you ever remember having? It could be when you were a kid, when you were a teenager, what was the first time you were technically employed?

Jonathan Pogact (23:11.878)
First job, favorite job. So I lived in New York, that's where I was born and raised. And in New York, you can get your working papers at 14. So I worked at a seasonal job at Toys R Us and my job was to pick up toys that fell off the shelves and put them back on. Basically, make everything look the way it should look during the Christmas holiday, right? Which is like a disaster. But that was my first job.

Adam Sockel (23:33.16)
-huh.

Adam Sockel (23:38.248)
Yeah, that's amazing. I'm thinking about all of those very cheesy things you see on LinkedIn. Here's what so -and -so taught me about SaaS sales. I feel like you could do a really good one on that. Yeah, you don't have to.

Jonathan Pogact (23:49.574)
be good. Here's what Toys R Us taught me about a career in B2B.

Adam Sockel (23:55.079)
Yeah, I love it. Again, you don't have to name names on this one, but what's the worst job you've ever had? Again, you can paint with broad strokes here to not throw someone under the bus.

Jonathan Pogact (24:04.486)
I feel like such a cop -out. I really haven't had a bad job. No, I don't think I have. I'm gearing over here. I haven't had a bad job. I've been really fortunate. I think a lot of it's just luck, right? You get lucky working with the right people at the right time. Maybe I'd say babysitting when I was young, young, but...

Adam Sockel (24:18.022)
Mm -hmm.

Adam Sockel (24:26.917)
That's fair. That's fair.

Jonathan Pogact (24:28.55)
Even that I enjoyed so I'm sorry. I'm a bad guest I have not had the quintessential bad job or nightmare boss or anything like that

Adam Sockel (24:35.525)
Mm -hmm. No, it's OK. Listen, you've lived a charmed life. That's a good thing. That's wonderful. Yeah. Do you have a favorite app you use for productivity, like something that helps you be more efficient in your work day?

Jonathan Pogact (24:42.918)
Lucky. I'll consider myself lucky.

Jonathan Pogact (24:53.638)
Ooh, big fan of Monday .com and a big fan controversial of Slack. I know some people are a little anti Slack. I love Slack. I love Slack workflows. I love organizing my Slack, big nerd, but those two.

Adam Sockel (24:56.196)
Mm -hmm.

Adam Sockel (25:08.451)
Listen, you're the second person who has said Slack and I harbor no ill will. I love Slack. We, here at Orem, before we got Slack, I had had two other organizations that I worked at that did use Slack and then we used a different messaging tool that was terrible and I will not call it out, but I was so happy when we got Slack and everyone else was like, this is so tough. And I was like, give it a minute, you will love it. So no shade there. Do you have a favorite app just for enjoyment? Whether it's Instagram, TikTok, could be.

Jonathan Pogact (25:14.501)
Yep.

Jonathan Pogact (25:24.581)
no.

Adam Sockel (25:38.338)
Angry Birds. Is there something you use on your phone just like for fun?

Jonathan Pogact (25:41.11)
I'd have to take a quick look, but I think I'm pretty guilty of doom scrolling on reels, shorts, and TikTok. I get them all, they're all the same to me now. I lose track of which app I'm on, but right now I'm on, what's his name? Dan the Hoof Guy? I don't know, it's a guy that trims hoofs. I'm all about it. I need to watch every episode and probably watch a few over and over again.

Adam Sockel (25:47.587)
Mm -hmm.

Adam Sockel (25:53.059)
Yeah.

Adam Sockel (26:02.146)
my God, I know exactly what you're talking about.

Jonathan Pogact (26:10.117)
as well as 2024 Live Biscuit Live concerts.

Adam Sockel (26:15.234)
I didn't have that on my bingo board for today, but I love it. Do you have an ideal work day?

Jonathan Pogact (26:23.109)
Yeah, I'm sure I do. I think an ideal work day, get up, have coffee at the right time, get my kids ready for school, take them to school, which is what I do just about every day. Have a great breakfast and have my day filled with productivity and good feedback, challenges, wins, opportunities, and ultimately just growth as a person and as a professional. Sounds corny, but...

If you're asking me to paint my ideal day, that's it.

Adam Sockel (26:54.656)
Yeah, I love it. All right, last one. What is a cold call opener that would get you to at least hear someone's pitch? Like what could someone say with they got you on the phone that would keep you on the phone at least for a minute?

Jonathan Pogact (27:08.325)
Once in a while, some of them do get through. Don't hang up on me, this is a cold call. It got me recently and I laughed because I have a pretty good sense of humor. So if you can get me to laugh, you have my attention. What else? I think that was the most recent one that stopped me and I'm like, all right, what do you have?

Adam Sockel (27:19.295)
Mm -hmm.

Adam Sockel (27:28.319)
Yeah, yeah, I love that, that's perfect. Jonathan, where can people find you and learn more information about seamless and all that good stuff?

Jonathan Pogact (27:38.245)
Yep, hit me up on LinkedIn, Jonathan Pogat, and then seamless .ai is the website. Check us out.

Adam Sockel (27:44.51)
Perfect, thank you so much for joining me today.

Jonathan Pogact (27:47.14)
Thanks Adam.